MOTHER OF THE MAGICAL GIRLS
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Post by SIFR on Jan 15, 2015 18:56:07 GMT -8
Staff should see themselves as members with responsibilities, not gods over a land. ... -poker faces so hard omf-.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 19:28:18 GMT -8
Staff should see themselves as members with responsibilities, not gods over a land. ... -poker faces so hard omf-.
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Post by pascaline on Jan 16, 2015 4:40:06 GMT -8
I love that this thread exists now. Thank you, Leap!
I agree with a lot of what was said but I want to add a few more tidbits:
1. I think the first thing any admin should realize is that being a good admin is akin to being a good parent. Your site is your baby and the members who join your site become part of an online family. As an admin, it is your DUTY to treat everyone on your site with respect and care regardless of your personal opinion of them. Even when I had to ban someone, it broke my heart because I would try to do everthing in my power to fix the issue.
2. Always be a professional. Never curse at or belittle a member in any way. I have left sites not because I was treated poorly, but because I hated the way other members were being treated by admin and staff.
3. Know when to pick your battles and don't micromanage. If a member has an idea that is a little far fetched, don't say no right away but instead try to come to an agreement. RPing should be about being creative and not following a mold. As long as it wasn't so far gone from the site concept I would usually say yes. If someone didn't have graphics but their profile was done, or they botched the coding, I would fix it for them rather than withholding their site acceptance.
4. Always ask for suggestions and constructive criticism. When I ran The Blue it wouldn't have been half the site it was without members constantly giving me input about how I could better the site.
5. Handle thievery like a boss. A member gifted us with a new background once. A while later a new site opened with our background. I joined the site, PMed the admin about it - politely and professional - and was told no. Then I asked a friend to make them a new background and asked them to please use that one instead and they did. Another site stole a system concept and I PMed them asking to at least be credited. Overall my policy was if someone asked me politely, I would give them whatever code, graphic, system, etc. But they had to ASK.
6. Don't take anything personal. Some people won't RP with you. Some will leave the site. Some may not even like you very much because they think they can do your job better. As long as you know that you've been professional in all your decisions there's nothing to worry about. It's just the way life is.
7. Have time to be a member, too. Make new friends, write with people that you don't know, act silly and spam the cbox but invite everyone in the cbox to join with you. At the end of the day you're just another player on the site.
8. Be the change that you want to see in your site. If members see you talking to everyone and welcoming guests, they will too. If they see you investing time in the site they will too. If someone ever says they're bored on your cbox ask them to help you advertise and others will offer too. If you create an environment of love and fun, which is what every site should strive for, then your site will succeeded because your members will love your site and they will love you too.
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Phantom of the Black Parade
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Post by Kuroya on Jan 16, 2015 5:44:26 GMT -8
Okay, I wasn't originally going to comment on this, but after some thought, I decided to toss out some of the advice I've picked up from almost three years now of joining sites (and owning/staffing off and on for about the same amount of time). Leap, if you want specific advice, I can give you a couple of specific pointers for you, but since they're a bit blunt, I'm going to give you the option of whether or not you want to hear it (and myself the option of backing out of any potential butthurt before it happens).
But in general, here's a few tips of what I've learned for making/running sites (five to be precise, and they're fairly universal and hopefully a bit unique takes on it). To try to keep things short, I'm putting my explanations for why under spoilers since the whys are almost as important as the tips themselves.
Do what you love and love what you do.
If you aren't one hundred percent sure you want to do a site, don't do it. If you're not one hundred percent sure you're going to love what you're doing, don't do it. As the admin, you're the one who, corny as it is, breathes life into the site. Life happens, yeah, but if you aren't around to chat with members and lend a hand every now and again for staff purposes, the rest of everyone will start to wonder why they should care when you, as the admin, don't seem to. I've seen this happen so many times, and I've even had it happen to myself on both sides of it. Basically. Don't let an interest check or whatever prompt you to make a site. Make it of your own freewill, because trust me, those are the sites that last longer and live "healthier" while they're around. A site's supposed to be fun, not a job, and while staffing is more of a job, if you really do like it, it's easier to get the work done since it's not work, it's fun.
Don't sweat the small stuff and pick your battles.
We've hammered to death the whole "be friendly and welcoming" and all that, but the thing is, it's true. I cannot tell you how many times I've been spooked off a site in my early days by staff who rubbed me the wrong way - still can be, to be entirely honest, though I don't often join sites anymore. Like I've mentioned in another post, activity goes down in certain flows that are a bit predictable, and if you don't worry about it and keep going, you can probably pull a site through. The site's not over until the day that everyone stops logging in; it's always salvageable, it's just a matter of how much work you wanna put in. And at the end of the day, it's all a matter of discretion. If you want to go after twenty different things, okay, but stop and think about whether the problem's really worth it. If it's not, well... usually it's a good idea to leave it well enough alone.
Keep your reputation in mind both for the site and yourself.
I am not aiming this at anyone in particular, and it's not intended to be an attack. I apologize if it's taken as one. I mean this as sort of... sit down and think. When we check out sites, there are names and situations that we see that we naturally gravitate towards or avoid like the plague. And we all have our different black lists as well compiled from our experiences. I know I keep one tucked away, and the names on it might surprise a lot of people since it's not the list that most people have probably come to expect of me, and I'm sure my name in and of itself scares off more than a few people from my sites because they have their opinions of me. I'm sure there are a few sites out there where you think of the name and immediately know when you see it, you're backing away - I myself, again, have more than a few that I've gotten via word of mouth from past members or just little things that when glancing through them rubbed me the wrong way. Point is, though, try not to get up a reputation for... I don't know, breaking advertising rules, for example. It will color your whole site, and trust me, that stuff follows you long after the site is gone and you've changed your ways.
Don't ask anything that you yourself aren't willing to do.
This is a personal rule of thumb I have for staff, and it's not one widely used. But I try really hard to never ask more from my staff or members than what I'm not willing to do myself. Advertising? Yeah, I don't like it, but I'll do it. Go out and find new affiliates? Okay, sure, more tolerable, but I can do it. Change a few personality points or history that doesn't make sense? It kills me on the inside a little, but I'll do it. Living by this makes it actually a little easier to ask for things rather than demand, and actually, I personally find it a relief since it means that if push comes to shove, I can put on my admin pants and buck up and do it if someone drops the ball for whatever reason. Which is supposed to be the job of an admin anyway, but some admins don't seem to think of themselves in that way, which saddens me a lot since the admins are supposed to be among the most active behind the scenes or on the site, and it's part of why they are who they are. Delegation is a god-send, but yeah just... at the end of the day, you do need to be able to do those things if they need to get done too.
If you don't have the time, don't do it.
We all know sites where the ideas were great, the staff good, the members nice, and no one had the time. There's usually a few common factors involved with these, and I'm definitely guilty of them, but it's still something worth saying even if I'm opting not to list the reasons since I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes and I'm more trying to lay out a "we all know that it exists, I'm just talking about the elephant in the room" type of thing. If you aren't sure if you're going to have the time to keep up with everything you've committed to (characters, sites, real life, and anything else), then don't make that commitment whether as a staff member or even as a normal roleplayer. It's not worth the stress of trying to deal with it or any resulting explosions that come from failing to. It's just not, not to mention that it also tarnishes your reputation a little, which I've already laid out my reasons for that too.
I know I've missed a few other things I would have said earlier, but Sifr, Redox, and Pasc (and just about everyone else who's already contributed as well) said a lot of what else I would add (not to mention I rambled a lot already). I hope that I come off as more trying to be real, which is what my intent is, than as trying to level bombs at people, which is far from what I wanted.
Okay I get it, I'm gonna shut up and give a salute to all the other admins out there since regardless of how things go, it's not nearly as easy running a site as people might think, and the decisions are hard, and I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who manages to get a site up and keep it running for any length of time. I tip my hat to all of you and tell you all to take a good break, pat yourselves on the back, and tell yourself you did good. You did for making it this far.
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Post by EMMIE on Jan 16, 2015 6:12:57 GMT -8
The only thing I have to say about this is really one thing...
You can't expect members to give what you are not giving.
Meaning, when an admin is active on their site, their members will be active too. Lead by example. You can't just come up with an amazing idea, paste on a beautiful skin and expect the site to thrive while you are off spending all of your time off of your site and neglecting it. A site will function and thrive when it's admin is there nurturing it and helping it grow. Mind you, even sometimes the best ideas fail and that is alright. There is nothing to be ashamed of if your site doesn't become something that you imagined it would be, there is no shame in trying and failing, but as long as you were there and at least tried, that is all that matters.
As for everything else? I think it has already been covered or said better than I could say it anyway! ♥
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Post by Starry Neko on Jan 16, 2015 13:30:07 GMT -8
A lot of people really hit the spot- and I would like to throw a bit in even if it's been stated by other people. I'm not an amazing admin, but I think I'm competent enough.
Don't make a site and not have time for it.
I see this a lot. Beautiful skins and site ideas are just often lost because the admin themselves do not have the time or the dedication. If you can't be posting and be there for your site, then your site will die. Do not give all the responsibilities to someone else if that someone else has no idea what your vision is. If it's your vision, have the commitment to keep with it even if it fails. That means in times of bad, good, busy, whatever- it's your baby and if you want it to live, that means you need to check it's diaper and feed it as much as you can in a day. Missing one day here and there is fine, but the more days you miss, the harder it is for the site to live in my honest opinion.
I have to echo people like Sifr, Redox, Murdoc, Pascaline, etc. Get rid of staff if they make your job harder. Be kind. Do not lord over something. Grow familiar with your site. Don't make a site if you can't stick with it like glue.
No not everyone is going to like you. Hell, I probably am on so many people's blacklist it's not funny. That's okay though. As long as we can have fun, who gives a crap if other people don't like us? Obviously don't be a jerk is a thing- but sometimes friendships/relationships/rp's break in a nasty crumbly way and you can't help it. My biggest advice is don't sweat it. Keep going and keep doing things you love, and it doesn't matter. Another thing is ban people if you and others feel unsafe. Get rid of them before it starts. Someone starts harassing your members/you in the chatbox? Kindly say that this place doesn't tolerate that kind and get it over with. I know this is the opposite for most, but to be honest, you get a few chances, but if you make other people uncomfortable and you don't fit in with the community? Then you really don't need to be there. I had an admin who kept a person who literally bullied other members because 'he was part of the site before us'. Ah, no. If they're bullying people and they feel uncomfortable, byebye. You and your members come first. Give people chances, but know that if they keep breaking them, they're not going to stop.
However one I haven't seen on here is actually really big for me.
Function is your friend.
Do not use a bunch of things that eat up the screen or overwhelm the member right off the bat. Do not overload anything. The more complicated/large/bundled together something is, it's harder for those with smaller screens/shorter attention spans to figure out most of the time. I see a lot of super big screen-eating skins (Proboards Support gives me a lot of site gems that can make you cringe)- I've also seen a site with over 78 threads in their lore book. I wish I was kidding. I love deep lore and hearing all different kinds of things personally, so it doesn't bother me as much as it would others...but I know for a fact that everyone does not read the information pages.
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Post by juls on Jan 16, 2015 14:04:19 GMT -8
totes gonna answer this like it's a school worksheet
What are the things that you have done that have been good for the sites you've helped run?
- Being a hard worker sounds like it should be a given, but staffing is a lot of work. Head admins or those who are building worlds and systems for their roleplays especially will always have more kinks to work out. Having a good to-do-list for staff seems to help, granted your staff are all on board. There's world building, chatting with members, advertising, modding in case of some, plotting, taking care of member-related issues or questions, etc. It's a lot! Especially being able to work fast and efficiently can help.
- Prioritizing your members has helped a lot for me in the past. In the case of Rokke, which I opened a month ago - yayyy - applications come first, then lab posts, then pokemon modding in order of the routes, then whatever other staff-y things I have to do, and THEN my character posts. And in terms of customer service, any business knows that keeping your current customers is more important than gaining new ones. Obviously new members are a thrill, but they're not the ones currently running your site. And it's not you, either. An admin doesn't make a site besides the skeleton - the members will be the reason for success.
What have you done that had the opposite effect?
- lol well not being there is one that never turns out well.
- Also, making all your own rules and not listening to member input might not ruin a site but it's certainly not improving it. Getting ideas from your members is a fantastic way of learning what they like and don't like.
What have some of your better staff done that you thought was admirable? What would you like to see in staff that you haven't before/haven't seen much of?
- As a member, and I've only seen this a couple times, but... staff who read other people's threads, do their studying on the character applications, etc. It can make a big difference, because they're paying attention and can better build a relationship with members. This isn't realistic for all sites obviously - some have more reading than others - but at least knowing the characters and members and who plays them is really nice.
- I'm not sure what I would want to see in staff that I haven't before, but a big turn off for me, as a member, is condescending staff. No matter how much I like a site premise, that can make or break it.
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Post by redox-kun on Jan 16, 2015 14:36:01 GMT -8
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Post by juls on Jan 16, 2015 15:25:19 GMT -8
redox-kun if I'm not doing my actual homework then I might as well be a keener somewhere else
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Post by PHARAOH LEAP on Jan 16, 2015 19:28:31 GMT -8
Aha, I haven't posted here since I started the thread, but wow, I'm amazed at the turnout. 8 D More input is most certainly welcome if anyone has more to give, but I love that all of you put in the time to organize all this and post it here. It's nice to see that some of the things I do already have worked for others, but even more nice to see fresh ideas that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise that have helped out other staffers, too.
Thank you all so much, and I hope everything ya'll've posted here can help out staffers everywhere, new, old, or anywhere in between. <3
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Post by Kratos on Jan 16, 2015 19:35:14 GMT -8
Having a good to-do-list for staff seems to help, granted your staff are all on board.
I've never been an admin and have limited staff experience but I want to reiterate this bit here and put some emphasis on it too. The reason I don't staff, even just minimal modding, for anyone anymore is I got sick and tired of admins who would just tell me and other mods to just do whatever we thought needed to be done and would turn around and bitch us out for not having done something that seemed like it should be done by an admin or get pissy at me for asking question so I could make sure I do it right. I very clearly remember one having an "I might as well just do it myself at this rate" outburst because heaven forbid I should be making sure I got it right. I don't recall any of those sites lasting very long either because mods didn't know what to do. Give your team the tools to be successful as a team right off the bat and you'll be a heck of a lot better for it than you will be without it.
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Post by Zozma on Jan 22, 2015 14:38:01 GMT -8
My advice: If you think something is stupid but you're putting it on your site because it's the "norm" just stop right there. Do what you want with your own site and don't sweat too much over whether or not other people will like it. I can guarantee that if you do what you want, you'll get members. This is coming from somebody who averages at least a 2 year rate with most of the sites she's ever run... and doesn't follow all the trends.
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Post by MASQUE on Jan 27, 2015 12:56:07 GMT -8
A lot of people have said super amount of stuff that I Agree to srsly this is such a good thread. And I'll put in my two cents b/c why not. I think, what people haven't really touched I guess, is the team. I know SIFR mentioned it, bless her, but in general it's your staff team that will define you. For example, a site I was recently so excited to be on, I'm ending up not coming on b/c of issues. I won't elaborate b/c it's not worth it, but it's just that kind of thing. Sure, people mentioned reputation, but I generally cast that aside, and look at the site, give it a trial period of like two weeks before making up my mind. The whole welcoming thing is definitely a must. I can't tell you how many sites I've left because I felt excluded. To add to that, a good admin AVOIDS a clique. Yes, you can have your friends, but the moment you take on that admin hat, you'll have people looking towards you. And probably, you'll have to deal with people that others would like to avoid, and that requires a lot of 'put it aside.' In fact, generally as the head admin, you have the final word. Another site that I kinda ended up done with, is so far down the political bickering because the head admin is too passive about things, that it's actually killed my site muse. Generally people have said what I want to say for the most part and I don't want to make text walls atm. XD Just in general, good admins for me are able to be personable, have a good team, avoid the whole clique trap and learn when to be professional and when to be friends. Sure, I might not agree with some decisions, I have a particularly hard time with brand new rulings out of nowhere honestly, but communication is key. Successful staffs that I have been a part of have been able to communicate with each other, and not play favourites, because that ruins a place faster then you can say llama.
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Post by Hiro on Jan 27, 2015 17:00:31 GMT -8
Alright, I think it's high time I show my face in here. I've gone through a few alias changes in my time, and by no means am I ready to jump out and say who I've been previously - but I've been in the RP community for years - over half of those were spent admining and staffing on other sites.
With that, comes experiences.
1. Never leave the entire workload for your staff to do. Just. Don't do it. It stresses the other staff out and, tbh, makes them want to quit - and they often do. If you're having IRL problems, let your staff know what's up, but don't disappear without a word. I was on one site where the other admins would often leave myself as the only admin, dumping all the work on me - mind you, it was a rather active and busy site at the time. That was no fun. Yes work often comes before play, but it should never be work work work with no play. That kills interest and muse. I was also on another site where all the other staff disappeared completely, leaving myself as the only staff member while I was working full time plus picking up hours due to being the only working head in the household and having to pay bills. Trying to float a site that way doesn't work, not well. Even without that much responsibility irl, I still wouldn't have been able to keep up with the every day demands of a site.
2. I don't care if you're an admin or not, if you're staff, don't shirk your responsibilities either. This plays with the point above. When you shirk on what you're supposed to do, it stresses other staff out. When staff get stressed, they argue and a site goes down the drain. If you're an admin - get rid of the problem or fix it. If you have one source to a problem that's making it much bigger than it really has to be - it's not worth it - seriously, weigh your options. Sites, your member base and your own mental health/ are all way more important than a petty argument online. Period.
3. Find a good balance of work and play. Sometimes it's not easy, but take your time, relax a little. We don't make RP sites to be a chore - it's for fun. When things start becoming a chore, take a break, spread your wings and relax before hopping back on the hustle and bustle. Its when people burn themselves out that things plummet. Don't let it happen - baby steps.
4. NEVER assume. Ever. I was on a site where I posted an away notice and told the other admins that I would be absent for a month, due to my mother having health issues and me having to pick up extra hours to pay the bills she was lacking in that month - and that I would definitely return once I was done. In less than a month, I returned to find all my stuff deleted and a lie passed around that I had left and abandoned the site. Needless to say, it left a bad taste in my mouth and is one of the reasons why I went through a name change. So. Never assume anything.
5. If you're gonna tell someone else to do something, you better be ready to do it yourself. EVER tell another member to do something or preach on how to do something if you can't do it yourself - staff and members alike will try to avoid you. Period. Just be a true blue, grand old person and you're good to go.
6. Patience is a virtue. Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking - oldest rule in the book, something that every staff already knows. Problem is - it's something I don't see a lot. Whether you're dealing with members, new or old or your staff members, patience is always something needed. I'm not saying to drag things out forever - but don't go shutting people down right away just because you don't like something they did or how they write. Give them a chance to explain their motives or fix their mistakes - it's a process of learning. Give and take. Chances are, there's a damn good reason why something happened - or if it's a member, they could just be starting out or not speak English as a native tongue. Help a person out.
7. Simplicity is next to godliness. Okay, I know that's not the saying, but it's true. You'll have your people who are bloodthirsty for set ways and well defined, heavy systems - but 90% of the people out there aren't into that sort of thing. Whether it's rules, battle systems or what have you - the more simple it is, the better. Complex systems, or anything for that matter, tend to scare members away. Not to mention your staff won't want to deal with complex systems themselves - they're already helping you out - don't make their assistance a job. Again, we're in this for fun, we don't need a math class online RP now do we?
8. Yes, communication is key - but if you're staff and you're not an admin, keep in mind that their decisions don't have to be run by you. This tends to bother a lot of admins that I know. It's their site, they're the heads of said site. As long as the decision they make isn't a drastic change, it does not have to have the a-okay by every staff member on the site - I.E. editing rules, adding small rules to better the site or keep members in line, changing skins hiring new staff or even making an announcement/promotion. Anything small to big - the admins have reasons for it - It's all the same basics. If you don't agree with something, don't throw a fit or retaliate - once again, it's stressing everyone out. Take your time and go talk to your admins - COMMUNICATION GOES BOTH WAYS. Or rather, goes ALL ways. From staff to staff, to staff to members and members to staff. That's something often forgotten.
9. Know what you're getting into and be ready for it. This one is pretty big - many sites die early either because they get a rush of members and can't handle the sudden influx or the staff simply hadn't prepared the site, or themselves, correctly for things that may happen. Yeah, sites of certain genre tend to draw certain people to it - and that tends to give the community a certain flavor to it. Whether they seem to be the drama inducing, the haters or those perfect little babies you just want to squish - be ready for anything to happen and tackle it with everything you've got. You'll come out on top and the feeling of success is unrivaled. Curve balls will be thrown, pick up your bat and be ready to swing.
10. Have a level head. We all know that everyone says not to play favorites, but regardless... it happens. You end up feeling closer to some people over others and they become your best friends or sometimes even more. But regardless, remember... your site is a family, they work together, play together and grow together. Know when to set aside your feelings and set your foot down if need be. Don't be that troublemaker, nobody likes a troublemaker. People will have conflicting personalities, it happens - but put aside your differences and just... go with the flow, chillax and have a good time. It's not worth attacking each other and breaking the site apart - whether it be your site or someone else's. It's not like the people you dislike there are in your immediate life. If you get mad at them, take a step away from the computer and take a breather. Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.
11. If you have a problem - don't drag others into it and don't make it public. I don't care if they're your friends or not, just don't do it. Don't drag your problem out into the open either to make a big deal out of it - once more, that stresses out the entire site. Tension is rarely a good thing. Keep it off the site, let others go unaware. Approach your fellow admins/staff in a calm manner, being all worked up won't help, and talk to them, try to resolve the problem. Chances are, it's something small and laughable and you all can kiss and make up. Hugs all around. If your problem can't be solved - let it go. Once again, everyone online is not in your real, immediate life. They do not affect you in any immediate way. Yeah, feelings can be hurt, but they're not going to pop out of the screen and stab you in the back. So don't act like they're going to.
Here's a wall of text for you all. I may post later, but these are some things that I've seen in the past not only from my own experiences, but from simply looking around from site to site as well. In the end, it all boils down to one, major aspect - respect. Not only for others, but yourself. If you can't respect yourself, how can you expect anyone to respect you either.
I'm sorry if any of this seems rantish? I don't think it is but everyone may not see it that way... plz don't eat me. Any sites talked about in this post are all closed - never would I talk smack about an open site. <3
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Post by MASQUE on Jan 29, 2015 4:13:54 GMT -8
Oh right, I forgot to mention something
Yes the admin's word is law - but think of your site as a living body.
For example, the head admin is the brain, and the staff is the actual body, whilst the rest of the site is like nerves/foods/whatever else. You have to sort our what's spoiled/doesn't work and take it out.
With staff, you actually have to replace this - however, you have to think that sometimes, sure it might seem a good plan on paper, but your staff are living, breathing beings.
On the bleach site that I was a long time mod on (2-3 years, woo woo.) the head admin removed one of the admins, and then replaced him with someone that nobody really liked. A lot of the staff went up in arms over it because they removed the guy that did his job, and did what he needed to do, and that everyone liked quite well - for someone that was fast tracked through the whole thing by favouritism. Needless to say, they dropped the site two months later because they weren't getting things their way.
The people on staff are real people. It's hard to put yourself in their shoes as a head admin but you should probably try. Staffing is supposed to be professional in most cases. However, they're still people with feeling - so people get pissy and people get mad. Having an advisor, or generally just talking things through with your staff, letting them give their opinions to you, and then you do a final verdict, is actually one of the more solid staff systems I've seen - they last the longest because staff doesn't in-fight since they have a person specifically designated to help them with inter problems. (and it's a hard job for that person, I applaud those that can do it.)
And well, everyone gets their opinion in and don't feel like they're being shafted or that favourites are being played. It takes out one of the worst causes of staff in-fighting, and helps present a united front to the members. Although, if you ignore dissatisfaction or employ a 'my way or the highway' stance, often times that just worsens problems. Particularly if there's a problem with that person - ignoring them and refusing to acknowledge the problem, or worse getting emotional over it yourself ends up breaking friendships.
So yes, the head admin has the final word - but staff are actual people, more then likely close friends of yours. So treat them like that, and more likely then not, it'll be okay.
You get more flies with honey then vinegar after all.
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