[kappaccino]

All right, I just spent a full day at the lake so I guess it’s a good time to write up stuff for this possible site! Mainly I’m hoping we can get opinions on how to make it, get a good read on interest to see if we should make it, and find people willing to staff it if it is made. So please post any of your thoughts here or in pms, even a ‘I’d join’ or ‘I like this part’ would be helpful.

I guess we should start off with some brainstorming questions? I don’t have time to run a site as an admin (though I can costaff), so everyone should feel free to add their own questions or take charge. Onz

1.) Fish gijinka/mermaids only? Or should humans be playable? If so, what are their race relations?
2.) Any sort of ability to allow them to get legs and go on land? A site-buyable potion, a natural ability, ect?
3.) Should they be separated into two categories, shallow mers and deep sea mers with any choice of seas creature placed in one of the categories? (Lionfish in shallow, angler in deepsea ect?) Or something else, like standard mermaids, sharks, deepsea ones, cephelapods?
4.) Any idea for the plot? More sandboxey focusing on shallow/deepsea (if deep seas regularly went after the shallows?) race struggles? Or perhaps there should be a main plot to give people direction?

I’m sure there are more questions to ask, but as I said, I just returned from a day of swimming so I’m a little brain mushed right now.
Here are my personal opinions to the questions.

1. I think if there are humans (I think that would be fine), I’d like it not to be humans using mermaids as slaves or possessions. Just not my cup of tea. Maybe happy relations with the local inland/island? Not too picky on all this though.
2. I’d be okay with there being an option for mermaids to gain legs, at least temporarily. This is especially true if humans are allowed.
3. I’d prefer it just being shallow/deepsea usergroup wise. I no curr though.
4. Maybe I can help out with this one when I’m less asleep… >n<;;


Sorry if any of this was as unclear as my current blurry thoughts. I can clarify if needed.

zerohour beekeeper POLARBEAR gimmick

[beekeeper]

ahhh i'm excited to actually see this happen, SHARK WEEK INSPIRED ME SO MUCH

anyways, i agree about not having slavery/possession. that being said i don't want an entirely friendly relationship either. i like to think there's some sort of wariness, maybe that the younger mermaids are more friendly with humans, while older/more traditional ones prefer to keep away?

maybe if you wanted a site plot, you could say shallow water mermaids can have legs and go on land (it could be an ability, with stipulations), and maybe even a lot of them are doing it more often to escape the deep sea mermaids because they're getting attacked more frequently? deep sea mermaids could even be capable of it too, though since they're not around shores, it's really rare for them to use it.

i like the shallow/deepsea dynamic, give them two different cultures, and have some sort of conflict growing between them.

also, i guess some more food for thought - woud you have other fantasy creatures or just mermaids? things like selkies, kappa, etc. you could even have some sort of deep sea cthulu sort of creature driving the deepsea mermaids to shallow waters?

[POLARBEAR]

<sub>Thanks for tagging me.

o1. I really don't mind if humans were playable. I'd probably end up making a human diver, lol.
o2. I would like it if they could grow legs to be honest.
o3. Yeah that sounds good!
o4. I don't mind what you do or if you added a plot and what not. 

o1. Yeah. Anything would work as long as humans and mermaids live on mutual terms.
o2. I really don't mind if there was a potion, but it most definitely should be temporary.
o3. If that's what you want. I just want to role-play mermaids and mermen.
o4. I'm glad I didn't reply at night.

I seriously would adore this role-play, but out of curiosity will this be hosted on proboards or jcink?
Also, what are the life span of the merfolk?</sub>

[kappaccino]

beekeeper:

Shark week yay!

I do hope someone takes up admincy so we can make this a thing! I don’t mind creating it/writing up a lot of the content, but I just don’t have enough time to run it alone at least since I have kamikakushi, and I’ve been working on pokemoncrossing.

I agree with all your ideas, pretty much! Maybe the older generations have bad blood with humans thanks to a couple mers being fishnapped in the past? Or the old wives tale about humans eating mermaid children (kind of like how older people would spread rumors about the Romani/Jews eating kids in Europe/Russia, yet most of the younger generations knew it was nonsense.) Or it could have actually been a thing, since myths exist with people eating them for eternal life. Perhaps that’s too extreme, and it could just be because mers were blamed in the past for shipwrecks, and humans killed a few by tangling them in nets accidentally.

The shallow/deep sea dynamic is my favorite part as well! If I thought it wouldn’t turn people away, I’d just try to play that up and leave it sandbox-ish. However, I really like the idea of the cthulu-ish creature driving the deep sea ones up and into shallow territory. Aside from that I’m not certain what their conflicts could be, aside from standard fights of resources. Unless, like, deep sea mermaids used getting shallow-mermaid’s fins as a rite of passage? (I feel like my suggestions are kinda silly tonight, sorry! xD)
As for other creatures: I dunno! If it’s what others would prefer, I’d be happy to support adding them in. I’m perfectly fine with it just being fish gijinka and humans though, to make it simpler.

POLARBEAR
As for site hosting: I dunno! I guess it depends on whoever steps in to take over. I prefer proboards, to be honest, but jcink is okay.

[zerohour]

ohjeez. I'm an absolutely terrible admin, I'd let y'all down :'D I'd definitely help co-run things though! I can... idk, do grunt work, ads and stuff X'3 /shot

but yes, ohmygoodness, I love this.

1. Definitely yes to the humans, I think. personally I like drama, so I do like there to at least be the opportunity for there to be conflict, but overall good relations would probably work best, yeah. probably the native islanders are good with the merfolk, yeah. maybe there could be a thing with foreigners coming in and there being issues there? I dunno, but yeah, the older generation merfolk just being overall wary would probably work.
2. Yes, have them be able to be on land, but probably have it not be super easy, if you know what I mean? like, it takes a lot of energy and they can't do it for terribly long. or have it be linked to their emotions or something? idk, accidentally transforming back in the middle of the land sounds fun, don't mind me and I like the idea of the deepwater having more problems with it than the freshwater, though that might just be a result of them being out of practice ahha
3. yeah just shallow and deepsea would probably work. although I do like the sharks / cephalopods / whatever as like secondary race choices. or something. does anything i say make sense i dunno
4. um I'm definitely more attracted to some sort of a central plot, though it doesn't have to be anything fancy. so yeah, cthulu-ish mystery beast chasing all the deepsea ones sounds like a good enough start. maybe the deepsea and the shallows speak different languages or something so they have issues figuring out what all's going on? i'm sleepy too i dunno
also I lovelovelove selkies so if that could be a thing it would be cool. it sort of seems like a natural extension to me, though if that's too complicated I get that too. this certainly doesn't have to be anything fancy. x3

and um I definitely prefer proboards. extremely so. I don't think I've ever even been on a jcink though? so I mean I could attempt it I guess I wish I could step up to take over but... that usually doesn't end well :'3 so

but yay I'm so excited wheee

[beekeeper]

i prefer proboards, but i'm totally fine with jcink as well

if it is proboards, i might be able to do a skin~ that's about as much as i can offer aside from being an enthusiastic member haha.

[kappaccino]

Okay, so at three a.m I tried to plot brainstorm by just typing and this rough possible draft happened. I’d doubtlessly shorten it if we went with something like this, but I just wanted to get a feel for it. Please, anyone, tell me your opinions on what you like/don’t like, and whether we should scrap it for another idea.

The port town of TOWNNAME was just a shanty little village not worth a dot on the map, until some drunk fell off his horse and headfirst into an inland cave filled with treasure. Who’d have ever guessed that TOWNAME was built on the remnants of an old pirate’s cove, and that the man was stupid enough to open his gob to the world? It’s two years later and people still keep pouring in to search the land and nearby seas for more loot, and the town is now a bustling hub of activity. Not everyone likes their new neighbors, particularly the ones who are now having trawling nets dropped on their heads.

You see, the local ocean doesn’t just have the typical ecosystem: it has a monarchy. Mermaids, sea-slyphs, fishmen: they’ve been given many names by humans, though they know themselves simply as one of two sunsoaked(someone help me find a replacement) and deepsea (and again). The sunsoaked dwell in the shallows, where light is plentiful and life is vigorous. Diverse and abundant, for a long time all this kingdom had to worry about was the survival of the normal hazards, and the rare raids from down below. Now, well, they’re caught between a rock and a hard place! Suddenly their waters are rife with human ships and garbage, and the dreadful nets told about in the elders stories are tangling up this fair folk.

That was the rock, so where is the hard place? Well, time to go deeper, deeper, and deeper still until your eyes pop out from the water pressure. There isn’t much known about the deapsea tribes, aside from being near opposites for the shallow-dwellers. Their environment is cold and lightless, a harsh world where only the strongest of the strong survive. Away from the copious resources of the pampered people above, every day is a struggle to find food and evade the giant squids and noxious gases belched from undersea vents. Kindness and charity are concepts that would be met with confusion, and the social links are loosely tied into tribes that still tend to value individual gain over the gain of the group. Some tribes are more aggressive than others, raiding the shallows above for food – which sometimes extends to their fellow merfolk. But now more and more of them have been leaving the depths of their homeland, pressing further into the realm of the sunsoaked outside of brief night attacks. Still, this bright world is unfamiliar and uncomfortable to them, the light pressure a painful disorientation. What’s the reason for the sudden mass ascension?

Crowned with the wreckage of old ships, she is stirring with her tentacled arms creeping out like feelers, awakened at last from her long slumber. The kraken, the consumer of vessels and destroyer of the old deepsea civilization has grown hungry once more.

The mermaids are stuck between the humans who’re thirsty for gold and the monstrosity that is thirsty for flesh. It’s no wonder more and more are trying their luck on land, but can any of them ever be more than a fish out of water?

Alternatively, these are other plot ideas that might work?
--humans think mermaids are hiding a lot of gold, and they want to steal it, first plot point? (that just goes along with above though)
Other ideas for plot: instead of old pirate bay, could be a small town or island where a precious resource was found? Maybe it could have a pollution side effect if it was something to be refined, replacing treasure hunting nets as a reason for mers to leave the water.

A town/island that was recently colonized by another country whos people are distrustful of mers? Native people could be fine with them, but then their new bosses are suspicious and against them?

Just a… Normal town or island for them to be near? Lol So mers just have to deal with each other?  I dunno, please suggest!
--

zerohour, maybe we could add a fay usergroup for selkies and kelpies. Not involved in the main plot as a race, but characters could do so? And thanks for the staff grunt work offer! If you could do ads, I bet angels would cry in relief (I hate doing ads xD).

beekeeper: Omg, your skins are beautiful. *u* That would be so awesome!


What kinda name for the site? Fish Out of Water, H2-OHNO!, uh, insertfishypunhere? /bad at names

[zerohour]

kappaccino Ahhh the fey group sounds amazing <3 kelpies are ridiculously amazing, I think that would totally be fun, if only as a side thing. there are so many myths involving the ocean and all. maybe the mer were the only ones there originally but now that outside humans from other cultures are immigrating to the island they're bringing their myths / creatures with them? /idk /random thought scottish kelpies are cool man

and honestly I really like the plot that you wrote out, it pretty much encompasses everything that I was trying and failing to say. cause there's potential for conflict and all but it's still pretty lighthearted. also treasure hunters. can we have pirates? can we have mermaid pirates? all the possibilities

and as for names Zero fails don't ask me >w< I do like Fish Out of Water though

[beekeeper]

the plot sounds perf! and even if there wasn't any refinement going on i'm sure the water is still plenty polluted. (don't get me started on pollution lmao). you could always have fay as a like a special group, give them out as prizes or have them bought from a site shop, if you didn't want them to be too predominant. but yeah that's pretty much perf as far as plot goes!

H2-OHNO! is the most adorable thing ever jfc

EDIT: also we'll probably need to set down race guidelines for the mermaids (and other races if they're included). i think things will vary with whatever fish they're based off, but maybe some general things, like deep sea mermaids having worse vision since they don't really use it much, etc.

[kappaccino]

Thanks guys! I'm relieved you think the plot is decent! <3

I really like the idea of making the fae a buyable option, but I’m afraid it might make those who only want to play one character upset. Maybe you can have only one in the fae group unless you buy a second fae character option? That way it doesn’t block someone if they just want to play a selkie/kelpie/siren, yet hopefully the numbers won’t get higher than the others?

Also, I’ve been picturing it set in the past time-wise. Y’know, typical fantasy story era with carriages and no electricity, but I now realize it might have just been me? What do you guys think, should it be more modern? Any particular time periods preferred? I’d be down with it being set in any time, though modern world would add in a lot of issues we’d need to address, so I'm not as fond of that.

I feel like I could probably write up most of the site stuff, and then just post staff searches around, maybe? I have a lot of muse for it. No experience with skinning or coding though, so that would be all I could do for it.

Edit for beekeeper 's edit
Yeah, I think writing about every race playable would be essential. I can try to write some up soon and see what you guys think needs to be changed or added?

[zerohour]

and yeah, for fey/fay/fae, maybe say you can make one but have to purchase more than that? so it would still be a lesser population, but I understand that heavy restrictions on them can really turn off people who prefer only one character / restrict muse. we could always have temporary bans / discouragements to get things balanced out down the line though those also kind of bug me if they're super strict, idk

oh, I was totally thinking of modern day, lol. not really sure why, it doesn't make a whole ton of sense, but I'm weird so. and I read a modern day selkies book recently ahhh XD I dunno, they both have their merits, though fantasy era would certainly be simpler. I'm sort of neutral on it either way, so... whatever you want? it would certainly add pollution to have it modern, at the very least. and like... science. but eh.

and yeahhh, we need to find a main admin lol. and I can't skin, but I can try my hand at coding tables...? maybe...? laika will skin for us right laika's skins are beautiful and if you're cool with writing all the info, Kappa, then more power to you XD

[kappaccino]

I wrote up possible race info for the two mermaid types, but I'm not sure how much I like them. I tried to keep them short, but, uh, failed. onz Please give me any opinions on what I should change!

SPOILER: Click to show

Sunsoaked!

The ones who bask in the light-filled shallows, this merfolk species is both the one most often seen and most varied. In the waters near TOWNNAME there is a small underwater kingdom with a loose monarchy, divided into little towns and communities called shoals. Pampered by the sundrenched environments where food and beauty is plentiful, life has generally been easy for this species as a whole. However, where once they had to simply worry about the occasional sharks and night time raids from their cousin species, the arrival of more and more humans has led to dangerous nets dragging up their homes while pollution sweeps in from the shore and onto their doorstep. Though humans have long been treated with suspicion by the older generations of mer, who remember days of being hunted, many of the younger crowd are leaving the water to risk life on the land, more afraid of the deepsea merfolk pushing further and further into their territory.

Societal Views & Lifestyle: A big part of Sunsoaked culture is appreciating beauty, and the relatively peaceful lifestyle they’ve held up until now has enabled it to become a virtue. Considered rather vain in general by other races, sunsoaked tend to be materialistic. Attracted to bright things, they could even be called the magpies of the sea. However, as a whole, they are also compassionate with a strong sense of community and family. Elders and youngster are cared for, often communally, with some bigger shoals even raising all children as a group effort with no defining of biological parents. Their houses tend to change depending on the specific types found in a shoal, and the closeness to the castle town (ex: far away might have simply caves, while in the castle town construction is beautiful, meticulous, and similar to that on land.)

Physicality: This species is so varied, it’s hard to tell some are related! Around half just look like the typical picture of a mermaid you’d find in a storybook, a human from the waist up with a standard looking fish tail of any color down below, give or take a few gill slits and fin flares. The other 50%? Well, they can have specific traits from pretty much any creature you’d find in water blessed by sunlight! For example, a lionfish mer with the spikey fin rays all over themselves. Even (rarely) things such as sunsoaked with the under half of octopi can be found. Hell, even fresh water fish traits tend to pop up in families out of the blue, though they don’t have words for them. A combination of genetics and chance, it’s never certain what childen will be born as. To judge them on human terms, however, most merfolk tend to be a bit smaller than humans, with variation depending on the fish type. Their skincolor ranges the full spectrum of human tones.

Strengths: Varies, depending on fish subspecies. Tend to be attractive, and have people willing to watch their backs. See well in the bright glare of the sun.

Weaknesses: Vary depending on fish subspecies. Tend to not see well in the dark, and tend to be weaker physically than other races.

Special Powers: All merfolk have the ability to shift their tails into legs, but it isn’t an easy process. For one thing, they have to be completely dry from water. Not even a single drop can hit them anywhere, or else the tail instantly replaces the legs. Caught in the rain? Poof! You’re now forced to lay on your side until the sun comes out later to dry you. A second problem is that moving is hard for muscles used to the buoyancy of water, and young mers easily work themselves into over exertion. The third and biggest problem is that mermaids require to drink and be in water at least once a day to prevent drying out, which means they cannot keep their human forms long.
 
Deepsea

It’s been said that the dark depths of the ocean floor are like another world completely, filled with horrifying creatures. Well, this is true, and the DeepSea merfolk are part of the menagerie of terrors. Cold and brutal, these people have no central government and run most often in small tribes ranging in aggression, with some simply concerned with hunting enough food to survive and others raiding their above cousin species and even other deepseaers. Life has always been hard for this race, but it’s gotten harder still as the kraken has begun to awaken, sending out sleepy feelers that snag these people and drag them back to the terrible beak that consumed most of their kind in the past. Forced to flee these tendrils, deepsea mermaids are now pressing into the shallows – uninviting to their senses evolved for dark and pressure. Most hover aggressively near borders, but a small amount are tentatively hoping for peace with the sunsoaked they’d long terrorized. Some are even leaving the ocean altogether, living in a world painful for them just to avoid the monstrosity in their homeland.

Societal Views: Lifestyle: A harsh land creates a hard people. Survival is the most important thing to these individuals, and it’s a lonely world when constant dominance struggles exists within tribes and going solo means no one is there to watch your back against giant squid. Things such as trust and compassion would surely be foreign concepts to this species always on the edge of survival. There are no cities or towns anymore, just wreckage from hundreds of years in the past. Tribes are nomadic, sleeping in any place they deem safe enough before moving on.

Physicality: Not as varied as the sunsoaked, a majority of them just sport thick and muscular tails in either a dark muddy color or milky white, often with tendrils, bioluminescent spots, and gills along their ribs. Others can vary with traits matching the sealife of their deep home, such as anglerfish with lures and dragonfish with jagged teeth. Their human halves tend to range from a corpse white to greyish, though any color is possible, and many have tribal tattoos covering their bodies. Possibly the most notable trait all deepsea mers share are large luminous eyes that can see well in their nearly lightless world. They are bigger than sunsoaked, and tend to be much more physically powerful.

Strengths: Physical power, a harsh life to hone them, and ability to see well in the dark.
Weaknesses: Unable to stand much light, the water pressure outside their homes has a dizzying effect, and if they’re wounded it is unlikely their own kind won’t just abandon them.

Special Powers: All merfolk have the ability to shift their tails into legs, but it isn’t an easy process. For one thing, they have to be completely dry from water. Not even a single drop can hit them anywhere, or else the tail instantly replaces the legs. Caught in the rain? Poof! You’re now forced to lay on your side until the sun comes out later to dry you. A second problem is that moving is hard for muscles used to the buoyancy of water, and young mers easily work themselves into over exertion. The third and biggest problem is that mermaids require to drink and be in water at least once a day to prevent drying out, which means they cannot keep their human forms long. NOTE SPECIFIC FOR DEEPSEA: Going on land is even harder for the deep sea merfolk, who are more prone to drying out or overheating. Not only do they appear frightening to humans, their language has changed over time to be a bit unintelligible, or at least heavily accented, to the other species.

My problem with modern is that humans seem much more deadly and pirates/treasure hunters much less likely? Unless it was in a poorly developed part of the world, but even then it seems people would kill mermaid populations for profit. M-Maybe I just have a very cynical view on humans today. xD /looks at endangered animal list, and the fate of natives the world over However, since this is a fantasy world, we could just have humans suck less if we wanted. Old times is easier, but modern isn't impossible if that's what people want to play more. c:


If anyone is skimming this thread or even the recent posts and is interested in the site, please tell me whether you like modern or old for the setting, since everything else is contingent on knowing that part!

[zerohour]

I love the race info so far! It got a little long, sure, but it covers everything that needs to be covered without going overboard :3 so yeah, I think it stands pretty well the way it is...?

and yeah, I totally understand why you have reservations about the modern stuff XD I just thought that maybe modern scuba diving equipment etc would be cool for the humans or something...? I don't know, I'm fine either way, simpler is probably better in this case x3

[beekeeper]

yeah, a one-per-person fay limit sounds good. you can just say that they're rarer and hopefully people will be good about keeping the balance.

also i like the idea of merfolk having their own language. even different ones among sunsoaked/deepsea (possible a bunch of different ones for the tribes). idk it might complicate things; personally i like that it does, language barriers are fun to play with but i can totally see why not everyone would want that.

i honestly defaulted to modern as well, probably because... i have an AGENDA. (i have a character that would fit really well into this). but uh i sort of imagined it as a alternate reality sort of thing where mermaids were something of a secret and not too big a deal for those who do know. maybe where the seaside town is also known as 'mermaid capital' and they have a lot of like... mermaid themed tourist spots and stories and stuff; but of course most people think it's just myth and for fun. especially if it was a small town before the treasure thing, maybe even not all the locals know about mermaids, they're just milking it for tourism? idk if i'm being coherent rn. but that's sort of what i was thinking? if you go with modern you could go with something like that. like i said, i prefer modern but non-modern isn't really a dealbreaker for me.

also idk if you want to go with this, but maybe a few canon 'groups' for the mermaids? eg. maybe sunsoaked setting up patrols (or just vigilantes fighting off deepsea), for deepsea a few canon tribes with seperate cultures (with people being able to ofc have their own characters from smaller tribes). it could be more work to come up with, but it might give people ideas. (omg and i can try actually help come up with that poor kappa writing up everything haha)

and yeah if i'm skinning i can probably do the temps as well, since i tend to integrate those into the skin anyways.

[kappaccino]

Thanks! >w<


I wouldn’t mind them all having different languages, but I can see how that might make people a little grumpy since it would make going through certain plots harder. Perhaps we can say some Sunsoaked learned the local common as a second language, like from the rare older ones who spent time on land or bartering for shiny things? Or just, like, a seawitch can offer potions to understand other languages briefly? thinking about ursala That could lead to fun plots where it runs out at a crucial time and no one can understand each other. I guess I’ll vote for that option for simplicity, allowing those who would like language barriers to play them, while those who don’t have an option out. I pander too much, oops. X3

If it’s set in modern times, treasure hunters would certainly have sonar and scuba gear, so I don’t think we could keep the current treasure-hunting plot for humans if mermaids were to be secret? Or perhaps they were recently discovered? Plus the people speaking a weird language and suddenly being finned and flopping on the ground in the rain might give them away. xD Of all modern-period ideas, I think I like them being known and declared a preserved species/people (a combo of what they do for animals or the last tribes of humans without outside contact today?) the most. Or at least them being a sort of national secret for that country, so only the influx of foreigners are surprised? Does that make sense? The town making money on mermaid merchandise, while thinking how silly the tourists are for believing all the made up legends about them (totally manatees in reality!) when they know the truth.

Canon groups sound cool! Especially so if you could help come up with them. <3 So many things to do still to make this. Onz

Omg pls skin and template. That’s be so cool ;u;