[Lyro]

As of late, I've been bouncing around all different kinds of site ideas, and as such, I've been considering what would be more successful and what would probably never get off the ground.  I apologize ahead of time for text walls, I have a habit of rambling, but either way...  One of the great debates I had with myself while thinking about what site idea would have the chance to actually succeed is something sparked off of a discussion I had with a friend of mine a while back;

What tends to catch your attention or what do you think has a better chance of lasting longer? Sites based off of canon settings, or something more original based off of a common genre / theme?

(If I confused anyone, a site based off of a canon setting would be something along the lines of Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Attack on Titan, etc. role plays. While they all may not have the canon characters available for play, or their plots have gone a completely different direction from the source material, there is still a source that was created and designed by someone else and already has a whole fan gathering.

For example of something original, this is where Fantasy, Super Power, Sci-Fi, Apocalyptic, etc. role plays come in. These are sites that don't have a "source" content but are actually purely designed and created by the staff member(s) that run the place. The limits, lore, plot, and story are all set and established by not an author, but the members of the site itself. Some might be based in IRL locations, but for the most part, it's all original.)


Personally, I've always loved original sites because of the freedom they typically allow and the fact you get to help build a whole new world with the people around you. They present a world with a problem and it feels so nice to be a character that could be the very one that resolves that said problem. Or even a sandbox site is horribly fun to get involved with because then you're literally helping build the world.  It just feels more personal and easier to get involved in a sense. Plus, when you're dealing with something original, there isn't the fear of canon suddenly doing a 180 and resulting in a lot of changes to be made to keep up to date with the ongoing source material. (Every new generation of Pokemon, I cringe at the thought of what mechanics might have changed this time around) However, I admit a down side of Original sites is that some might have text walls of nothing but lore you have to go through to try and understand someone's vision of this world they've created and that may not be everyone's cup of tea.

In terms of lasting longer though, I've seen examples of both types of sites lasting for a year or more.  However, part of me feels an original site has a better chance of lasting longer simply because it can change, adapt, and build in ways a canon site may be unable to without contradicting the source material.  Plus, when a canon series ends, the hype for it typically can only last for so long before people want to drift off to something new, right?


So, anyways, before I go on forever, what do you think?

[Egao, Egao Everywhere]

I'm a fandom person. To me, they're just as original and capable of providing freedom and world-building. So in that aspect, it doesn't matter.

I also favor being clever than creative.

[sleipnir]

I like both however if its fandom if it's done right. As in AU fandom, canon fandom (where canon chars are there) to me aren't my cup of tea.

Completely original is cool as well esp if you get a good bunch of people to contribute to the plot etc.

I'm 50/50. :c

[eggy azoozoo]

It feels really empowering and engaging when as a member, you feel like your dumb headcanons about a setting can actually become incorporated into site lore and be canonicized. Obvs, some people might be too titchy about their pet projects to allow that to happen on original lore sites, but I see much more of a chance of that happening than on fandom-based sites where bitchfests can start based on how AU (or not) you decide to make it.

and t b h...

even when there's the freedom to do completely innovative spin offs of existing fandoms (Harry Potter, etc), people tend to play it much more safe than you'd think, in terms of setting themselves apart from all the other fandom sites out there.

[Deleted]

I’ve recently had this discussion with an old friend of mine, and obviously we have experienced different things when it has come to fandom and original sites. Each can have an infinite amount of possibilities. Though, we feel that fandom sites typically last much more than originals because most people have lost the ability to be creative on their own. Without having something to reference to, and left to think for themselves, it causes them to become turned off of the site, despite how much initial muse they may have had for it. For most people, after character creation, the following question would probably be “what next?” It can be even harder when you don’t know someone on the original site, and even though the site may be a certain genre that the new member and current members have in common, that won’t necessarily help the newbie get to know them and enjoy the site. On the opposite side of the spectrum, if you have a large group of friends who is all for this original site, the results can be very positive. There are also faults for fandoms, but that is sort of just my views on originals. Not that I don’t want to have my own original site some day.

[Lyro]

Mar 2, 2015 17:34:38 GMT -8 @uneri said:

we feel that fandom sites typically last much more than originals because most people have lost the ability to be creative on their own. Without having something to reference to, and left to think for themselves, it causes them to become turned off of the site, despite how much initial muse they may have had for it. For most people, after character creation, the following question would probably be “what next?” It can be even harder when you don’t know someone on the original site, and even though the site may be a certain genre that the new member and current members have in common, that won’t necessarily help the newbie get to know them and enjoy the site.

You just blew my mind because I never really sat back and thought about it like that... Now I gotta wonder how would an Original site go about countering this kind of thing.

I would guess that posting up stuff along the lines of character concepts, ideas for plots, prompts of sorts, missions to do, etc. for people to use or build off of might help provide direction for new members on Original Sites, possibly? Rather than just being expected to make some random open thread and hoping someone took the bait, members can have a sort of story prompt to get them started?

[Jacob]

I formally withdrew from the anime, manga, and video game based circuit last year, but I still linger out-of-character wise.  Apropos whether subculture sites or original ones are better, I personally prefer the latter.  Very rarely, I will come across a locale which isn't associated with a fandom.  Bleach, Digimon, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, Pokémon, Naruto, One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh!, et cetera, are all franchises which my elder brother, twin sister, and I grew up with; we were extant when most first appeared.  Nowadays, we scarcely bother.  Only I engage in collaborative writing, so from that standpoint, a case to legitimately perk my interest would prove hard to make.

Most fandom sites often die off after several months, if they even survive a couple.  I could give names and reasons why; however, it's against community policy to do so.  Turning twenty-six-years-old this month, an original backdrop for those age 18 and above might have caught my eye.  I don't mean seeing unmarked hentai either, as one game showed when its index finished loading.  I immediately closed that filthy thing and fled back to my early music research.  A Bleach spot, interlaced with one former head administrator's fantastical elements, would solely be where I could return.

Non-canon orientations are best to me for who gets attracted, also.  I am an ordinarily meek, patient man.  Every time I end up in a fandom venue, testosterone-driven males and estrogen-driven women fawning over them show up.  They typically combine to form drama-ridden hellholes I mesh horridly with.  Those cliques, clearly negative, aren't worth my time, nor that of any innocent standbys'.  So, a man and/or woman shall find it simpler to procure a new applicant (id est me) through an imagined place than one drawn from some superfluous fandom.

[Deleted]

Mar 3, 2015 5:29:13 GMT -8 Jacob said:

I formally withdrew from the anime, manga, and video game based circuit last year, but I still linger out-of-character wise.  Apropos whether subculture sites or original ones are better, I personally prefer the latter.  Very rarely, I will come across a locale which isn't associated with a fandom.  Bleach, Digimon, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, Pokémon, Naruto, One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh!, et cetera, are all franchises which my elder brother, twin sister, and I grew up with; we were extant when most first appeared.  Nowadays, we scarcely bother.  Only I engage in collaborative writing, so from that standpoint, making a case to legitimately perk my interest would prove hard.

Most fandom sites often die off after several months, if they even survive a couple.  I could give names and reasons why; however, it's against community policy to do so.  Turning twenty-six-years-old this month, would I had continued about the anime, manga, and video game based niches, an original backdrop for those above age 18 might have caught my eye.  I don't mean seeing unmarked hentai either, as one game showed when its index finished loading.  I closed that filthy thing and fled back to my early music research.  Solely a Bleach spot, interlaced with the head administrator's fantastical elements, would be where I could return.

Non-canon orientations are best to me for who gets attracted, also.  I am an ordinarily meek, patient man.  Every time I end up in a fandom venue, testosterone-driven males and estrogen-driven women fawning over them show up.  They typically combine to form drama-ridden hellholes I mesh horridly with.  Those cliques, clearly negative, aren't worth my personal time, nor those of innocent standbys.  So, a man and/or woman shall find it simpler to garner a new applicant (id est me) through an established place than one drawn from a superfluous fandom.

even though i agree with jacob and his points, i still stand to make my naruto site. QQ i will break the wall with an iron fist and create the best narudo (meant to spell it that way) forum!

Mar 3, 2015 3:39:05 GMT -8 Lyro said:

Mar 2, 2015 17:34:38 GMT -8 @uneri said:

we feel that fandom sites typically last much more than originals because most people have lost the ability to be creative on their own. Without having something to reference to, and left to think for themselves, it causes them to become turned off of the site, despite how much initial muse they may have had for it. For most people, after character creation, the following question would probably be “what next?” It can be even harder when you don’t know someone on the original site, and even though the site may be a certain genre that the new member and current members have in common, that won’t necessarily help the newbie get to know them and enjoy the site.

You just blew my mind because I never really sat back and thought about it like that... Now I gotta wonder how would an Original site go about countering this kind of thing.

I would guess that posting up stuff along the lines of character concepts, ideas for plots, prompts of sorts, missions to do, etc. for people to use or build off of might help provide direction for new members on Original Sites, possibly? Rather than just being expected to make some random open thread and hoping someone took the bait, members can have a sort of story prompt to get them started?

i'm not sure, perhaps a starting point thread where staff step in to lend a hand in helping the member gauge what the world actually is more vividly through narrative. i don't know if i am painting the picture for you though lol. think of like a tutorial in a game.

[Lyro]

Mar 3, 2015 5:29:13 GMT -8 Jacob said:

I formally withdrew from the anime, manga, and video game based circuit last year, but I still linger out-of-character wise.  Apropos whether subculture sites or original ones are better, I personally prefer the latter.  Very rarely, I will come across a locale which isn't associated with a fandom.  Bleach, Digimon, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, Pokémon, Naruto, One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh!, et cetera, are all franchises which my elder brother, twin sister, and I grew up with; we were extant when most first appeared.  Nowadays, we scarcely bother.  Only I engage in collaborative writing, so from that standpoint, making a case to legitimately perk my interest would prove hard.

Most fandom sites often die off after several months, if they even survive a couple.  I could give names and reasons why; however, it's against community policy to do so.  Turning twenty-six-years-old this month, would I had continued about the anime, manga, and video game based niches, an original backdrop for those above age 18 might have caught my eye.  I don't mean seeing unmarked hentai either, as one game showed when its index finished loading.  I closed that filthy thing and fled back to my early music research.  Solely a Bleach spot, interlaced with the head administrator's fantastical elements, would be where I could return.

Non-canon orientations are best to me for who gets attracted, also.  I am an ordinarily meek, patient man.  Every time I end up in a fandom venue, testosterone-driven males and estrogen-driven women fawning over them show up.  They typically combine to form drama-ridden hellholes I mesh horridly with.  Those cliques, clearly negative, aren't worth my personal time, nor those of innocent standbys.  So, a man and/or woman shall find it simpler to garner a new applicant (id est me) through an established place than one drawn from a superfluous fandom.

You have an excellent way with words and I totally agree with your points here. Having dealt with both the testosterone and estrogen driven members, it can be quite exhausting after a while when everyone wants to be the Shounen or Shoujo protagonist and will throw a fit when someone tries to remove them from their guaranteed protagonist victory throne with the harsh reality of you lost. Things are no longer fun at this point because of the tendency for even the smallest of things to be warped into some sort of competition rather than focusing on the actual plot.

When it becomes such a massive requirement to follow systems and build up stats just to get your story to move forward, having the whole thing turn into a "Mine is Bigger Than Your's" contest rather than an actual story being played out to help push on that desire to go through the systems and stats is when numerous fandom sites lose my interest.

Mar 3, 2015 5:55:37 GMT -8 @uneri said:

i'm not sure, perhaps a starting point thread where staff step in to lend a hand in helping the member gauge what the world actually is more vividly through narrative. i don't know if i am painting the picture for you though lol. think of like a tutorial in a game.

I thiiiiink I get what you're trying to say here? Like, writing a short story that's kind of like "Episode 1" of a series that basically explains the world the RP takes place in?

I immediately just imagine a thread that's set up like a RPG character interviewing another character for information. "You notice yourself waking up in a foreign land with no recollection of your past, or where you are at the present. Beside you, a smiling old man offers his hand to help you to your feet. As you stand up, you look around to see <description of setting goes here>. "Welcome to (Blahblahblah)" the man declares with a gentle voice, much like that of a grandparent about to tell you a nostalgic tale." And then old guy proceeds to start explaining things with links at the end of each section that are similar to the Questions you'd see in a RPG where if you click them, it'll jump you to a post with the old man explaining what everything is. So like questions of "Where am I?" or "What is <insert term old man used here>?" and "How did I get here?"

Of course, there'd probably be other threads that would be like your basic info / reference threads, but the interactive narrative thread thing just seemed like an interesting idea - though I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant at all loloops

[Deleted]

you hit the nail on the head, Lyro.

[Lyro]

aw ye #nailed it

Thank you @uneri!

[Jacob]

Lyro:  You have summed up my thoughts precisely!  When I role-play, I do so with the intention of character and plot development.  "Slice of life" is what most call that, save me because I am a man who prefers formalities.  Added conniptions by other people over my habit of writing long messages is ultimately what caused my decision to stop any further involvement with anime related sites.

All the same, there are certainly fandom venues which have gone through hell, yet a member was brave enough to pick up any remaining shambles left by abandoning staff.  They then fashion among the most splendid locales Pro-Boards has to offer.  I know of one which is like that, albeit I won't join as a result of despising elves; likewise, the puerile cretins mentioned in my original post.

So, I must also congratulate you, Lyro, for your thoughtfulness and cleverness.  I've resigned myself to the unwanted usage of realistic face claims to get ideas across, but you should remain proud of yourself.  @uneri's Naruto situation, though fandom, will hopefully prosper somehow against the uncountable amount remaining throughout anime, manga, and video game related role-play.

[Elena]

I think both fandoms and originals have chance to last. It depends on the staff dedication, first and foremost.

An original site can have lore exactly like a fandom, so there can be guidance.

And it can be either a sandbox (this is a little town... vampires are nearby... go for it) or a plot-driven site. Again, I have seen both kinds succeeding or failing equally. I'd say there is no recipe for success.

[City -]

Personally, I hold no real preference one way or the other -for me its really quality. I'm totally okay with a site having canon characters as long as there is style and intrigue mixed in with them - mainly meaning that I'm fine with canons so long as the people playing them do their research and mix in their own writing styles as opposed to copy and pasting canon bios and picking on personality aspect to play off. The same goes for non canon really, its quality. At least with canons people have a base to work off, starting from scratch can lead to some less than stellar results in terms of uniqueness. I feel like a lot of fandom non canon sites can fall flat character wise - mainly because they sometimes end up filled with clones of he very canons they shunned (and, just like canon characters can, tend to be one dimension).

I guess to sum it up, canon or non canon really doesn't matter / shouldnt matter so long as the effort put into the characters shows. I've been on completely non canon fandom sites that fell flat character wise, but I've also been on numerous canon sites that failed character wise.